Suprised - Page 2

sikdogg · 04-05-2005, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbuck

Perhaps an explaination of my jelq technique will help to clarify some issues. My initial routines involved the sliding squeeze over the length of the penis (I guess this is the traditional jelq); it is almost completely useless, any trapped blood just dissipates to both ends of the penis. Applying extreme pressure at the base and holding for some duration will result in the requisite expansion to forment growth. I stopped this masturbation jelq after two weeks and solely perform the static variety. If your going to pop a balloon (assuming it is not at maximum inflation) you cannot just grab in the middle because the air volume will just redistribute to both ends.

Applying pressure at the base results in two favorable outcomes: 1) You prevent harmful back pressure to erectile circulatory structures, and 2) You induce maximum expanison to 80 percent of the penis, uniformly. There is no "baseball" effect because the physiology takes care of itself and the area that is squeezed is effectively brought along for the ride. The only way to get the odd shaped penis is to do some of the so-called advance jelqs in-lieu of counter-balancing jelqs. Some people will do variations of the "Horse Jelq" targeting mid-shaft girth and they are so zealous in their approach they end up with a bowling pin. To each his own, I have talked to some that do not really mind the "Brunswick Penis." For me, dedication to this jelq technique and only this technique has produced a little less than 6" girth with very little variation down the shaft.

The technique you describe is generally called an ULI. Yes it does a better job of engorging the penis but this is exactly what clamping does except it's done with some type of mechanical device instead of your hand. Why does it matter what you use to accomplish the same thing??

Quote:

In my opinion, the majority of length gains will result from weakening of suspensory structures and I believe complete fatigue is the most viable way. Although there is no physiological analogy in terms of comparing muscle growth to PE, I do believe the analogical effects of applying excessive
weight for larger muscles and a larger penis to be correlary activities (shorter reps with heavier weights result in cellular exhaustion).

That is true initially and for those that have the physiology to benefit from it, but this has its limitations. Once you've stretched the suspensory ligament you will get to a point where the stretch is no longer being applied to just the ligs but also on the penile shaft itself (tunica). At this point you will have to drastically increase intensity to see further gains. The best way to overcome this is to stretch upward to focus the stretch on the tunica itself. Once the tunica has been expanded, hanging/stretching down again will allow you to focus your stretch on the ligs. The above is how the going theory works... my opinion is that continuous stretching down works to fatigue the ligs but the body slowly adapts to the stress and gets stronger. This will lead to diminishing gains. By changing your stretch from down to up, what you're doing is de-conditioning the ligs and in time it will weaken just like anything else that in the body that isn't used on a regular basis. Stretching up also stretches the tunica which can/will cause length gains as well (just not as fast as that experienced from lig stretching). Once the ligs have been de-conditioned for several months, you can go back to hanging/stretching down and experience renewed gains.

Quote:

Clamping is a barbaric technique that in common sense terms makes no sense. It seems that people plateau and take ever increasing measures to try and exceed the point of failure (penile structures have limits). That kind of pressure can easily be mismanaged and lead to vascular lesions (discoloration/protruding vein walls), and damaged valves in the vein threatening proper circulation. It is just not necessary to create "strange and unusual" punishment for the penis.

I offer these comments as a caveat for the less experienced and it is important to realize that PE is addictive and growing in popularity and along with that addiction and growth will come new ideas to play the game but in my experience nothing beats the two hands to do the job right.

The only real difference between clamping and what you're doing is that clamping allows you to create much more internal pressure than what your own hand can. If that's your concern, then don't tighten the clamp down so damn much... problem solved.

Big Ziggi · 04-05-2005, 06:41 PM

Timbuck,
Ive been following this thread for a few days now. And I would like to attempt, to varify some of your points.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

#1 Traditional jelqing is effective(exp. jelq device), but not as effective as the applying the squeeze to the base of the penis.

#2 Traction devices (exp. penimaster) are not effective
compared to hanging.

#3 The basic squeeze/hang will do the job. All these variations are not neccessary(exempting a special case) and sometimes can be harmful.

Are these the points you are trying to make?

Timbuck · 04-05-2005, 07:14 PM

Although I have been doing a PE routine for about 5 years I have not kept up with the lexicon for some time. I keep it simple and do the same things and have not thought much about the proper nomenclature for these activities. Now, I am pretty much in maintenance mode but PE has always been a pleasurable and quite theraputic undertaking. If there is one thing I would recommend in your exercises is that you seek productive exercises that provide enjoyment ( I mean this in a more asexual form than a masturbatory stimulation). I would not think doing bends and sitting on your penis would fit this paradigm.

My activities incorporate uli's and hanging. Uli's that target the entire shaft and those that concentrate on the glans. I read some descriptive information on the forum and could not believe the detail describing the procedures. Palms up, palms down, PC muscle in contracted state, two finger grip, pistol grip, stroking fashion for a 5 count etc., wow, there are a plethora of ways to execute the "jelq." I believe there could be nothing simpler than the proper jelq, I could teach a two year old in 5min but using the detailed method might require waiting 5 or 10 years for his intellectual capabilities to grasp the nuance.

I just grab it at the base and squeeze like a "mow-fo," its important to grab it in a style that is pleasing to the eye because it will sculpt in the same fashion as molding clay. This goes to my earlier point about enjoyment, the visual sense is probably the most erotic sense for the male, there is nothing like a big boner (I think heterosexual guys would flock to bars that had male dancers with 9-12inch schlongs). There might be a little homophobic hurdle to jump in the beginning but if you had gals on the wings gushing at their manhood it would go over in a heartbeat.

The other area is hanging, I believe this is an excellent method for a couple of reasons. I explained my preference for heavy weight stress in an earlier post but the best reason for doing it is the aesthetic and theraputic effects. I do not know about other hangers but I love sitting back with a nice cup of coffee and a 10lbs weight on my penis. A great hang is a wonderful thing, it is addictive. If you have sexual tension or are looking for another level of relaxation; there is nothing (well, almost nothing) like a great hang. Putting the suspensory structures of the penis under load is very pleasurable, in the beginning you have to feel out the best technique but once you build-up some resistance its a clean skate. The stretch eminates over your entire lower abdomen and is pleasurable in the same sense as a good head massage/hair pulling.

I never got this kind of theraputic effect from stretching or ADS devices, so after a little experimentation I discarded stretching completely. I use to work a bungee chord type ADS on road trips and I never once experienced that zone of contentment where you sit back and go, "geez, what an incredible stretch" (never happened).

Quote:

Originally Posted by sikdogg

At this point you will have to drastically increase intensity to see further gains. The best way to overcome this is to stretch upward to focus the stretch on the tunica itself. Once the tunica has been expanded, hanging/stretching down again will allow you to focus your stretch on the ligs. The above is how the going theory works... my opinion is that continuous stretching down works to fatigue the ligs but the body slowly adapts to the stress and gets stronger. This will lead to diminishing gains.

Your theory implies unlimited potential, I believe there is a finite amount of size that can be achieved. Yes, the body adapts and gets stronger but at the same time it is getting thicker (primarily at the base), diminishing gains is just the nature of the business. My hanging over 2yrs (straight-down) has put on a little over 2inches; I believe I am done, it is my feeling that anything more would be measured in nanometers. Also, I want to enjoy the process, for me, if I have to start doing gymnastics it is difficult to find the desire. In addition, I am at 8 and really do not care about any more incremental gains.

As an aside, I think it would be great if you could go into Starbucks or the spa or a restaurant and the wait-person would come up to you and say, "well, how many pounds can I start you out with today, Mr Timbuck?"

sikdogg · 04-05-2005, 09:57 PM

I think i understand your perspective on PE alot more... It's all good.

With lig stretching, there is a limit to your gains but that's not to say that once you've achieved that limit you are done and should expect no more gains. Although the tunica is tougher to fatigue than the ligs, it can be done but it will take longer to achieve. That said, i do believe that we have unlimited potential to grow. It's just a matter of how long you're willing to stretch and pull on your dick.

2" in 2 years is a very respectable achievment and as long as you're happy with it, life is good for you.

Regarding some of the exercizes that you described, they are just variations of the Uli and stretch. They allow you to achieve the exact same thing as what you've done. Some are more intense than others... most people very eager to make gains and look for ways to increase intensity in their workouts. It's not so much about feel as it is about expediency. Most of us aren't as soulfull as you are...

Good luck brother...

10 · 04-06-2005, 12:23 AM

Timbuck:

Now your talking my language! Sitting back with a nice cup of coffee and just hang! Now that speaks truth. Been hanging for about 4 months now and I do enjoy it. And the cup of coffee (Starbucks mind you!!) makes it sweeter!

Timbuck · 04-06-2005, 12:41 AM

Zig:

The areas you highlight are pretty much my feeling regarding the most effective methods. You need the two components: Length and Girth. There are numerous ideas that try to exploit these areas and everybody seems to migrate to the ones that they feel work for them.

I would just stress that the penis is a relatively small structure and does not require a megadose of exercises to stimulate it properly. Find the 2 or 3 that work for you and go at it. It is a pretty straight-forward process and I do not know of any over the counter products or devices that are as effective at making it bigger than two hands and a couple of dumbells.

JonPop · 08-18-2008, 03:05 AM

I am bumping this thread and it should be required reading. Some very interesting views and perspectives here. Oh my. How far we've come and yet so many things remain the same.

JonPop · 08-18-2008, 03:38 AM

This is a very deep discusion and requires around 30 minutes to read it all. But, well worth the effort. It touches on the things that are still relevant today. Going back and re-reading this 3 years later, the thread makes much more sense now.

10 · 08-18-2008, 03:47 AM

I just read a little of this myself...............some of those posts go back to my early days here in 2005............man o man time sure flies..............

Jack · 08-18-2008, 04:24 AM

thank you everyone for the further insight into PE, very enlightening.

so glad I found this site and the dedcation here to the real stuff..

I think I have more investigtation in Ulis and weights..

Jack

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10

I just read a little of this myself...............some of those posts go back to my early days here in 2005............man o man time sure flies..............

Pegasus · 08-18-2008, 09:10 AM

Thank you JP.
I think perhaps Timbuck's comments have a lot to offer beginers like myself. In sport you should establish good basics before moving to advanced technique.
I am taking some time to condition myself as it seems wiser to go a little too slowly than a little too quick.
A question is the dry jelq more severe than the wet? I have always done dry and in a sense had some success with it and wet does not appeal. I am in a strange place, because my earlier blundering in the dark, led me to rediscover many of the things( hand stretches,uli's) and apply them. However I still consider myself a newb when I read this forum and of course I have had a considerable de-conditioning period.

Jack · 08-19-2008, 02:49 AM

I see Timbuck has been "banned" and I am not sure why. Seemed like people began to understand what he was saying albeit boldly.

I wanted to read more...

I was curious about the following statement he made as follows..

"Erectile processes involve circulatory systems that do not respond well to back pressure in the system. People are performing "horsies" in an effort to increase girth at the base and middle of the penis without an appreciation for the sensitive plumbing and nerve bundles that govern these flow gates. These are robust structures that can tolerate abuse but when people are clamping and exerting similar forces to the base as to the head, they are not knowledgeable of the anatomy. Your penis is flesh and blood it is not rebar; why the hell would you ever use a clamp!!!! People just do not know their limitations and some are searching for immortality in the PE archives."

Thanks for any response!

Is this to say that hanging and Uli's are not a good thing?

Was he saying jelqing was not a good thing because of "back pressure"?

Thanks for any response!

Jack

bozoballz · 08-19-2008, 03:34 AM

Thanks for the bump JP. It is a very good read, in fact it was something Sikdogg said that stood out for me:

Quote:

...our own eagerness to force our penis' to make faster gains is our undoing.

JonPop · 08-19-2008, 04:54 AM

Jack, Timbuck became very argumentitive as time went by and his attitude got him banned.

sikdogg · 08-19-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack

I see Timbuck has been "banned" and I am not sure why. Seemed like people began to understand what he was saying albeit boldly.

I wanted to read more...

I was curious about the following statement he made as follows..

"Erectile processes involve circulatory systems that do not respond well to back pressure in the system. People are performing "horsies" in an effort to increase girth at the base and middle of the penis without an appreciation for the sensitive plumbing and nerve bundles that govern these flow gates. These are robust structures that can tolerate abuse but when people are clamping and exerting similar forces to the base as to the head, they are not knowledgeable of the anatomy. Your penis is flesh and blood it is not rebar; why the hell would you ever use a clamp!!!! People just do not know their limitations and some are searching for immortality in the PE archives."

Thanks for any response!

Is this to say that hanging and Uli's are not a good thing?

Was he saying jelqing was not a good thing because of "back pressure"?

Thanks for any response!

Jack

He was correct to some extent in that the penis does not respond well to back pressure. This is especially true with newbies and why we alway advocate starting slow and working the intensity slowly over time. The fact is that the body is the most advanced machine that we know of and has the ability to adapt to physical stresses as long as it's applied slowly and over time. This has been proven time and again every single day. The body was never designed to bench press 700lbs or squat 1000lbs but people have done it. These feats didn't happen overnight but over a course of years/decades before these bodies were able to adapt enough the support these lifts. Our body's ability to adapt doesn't end with skeletal muscles.

Another thing Timbuck is skipping over is that EVERY SINGLE GIRTH EXERCIZE INCLUDING JELQING AND ULI CREATES EXCESS BACK PRESSURE. Back pressure is what causes engorement which in turns causes expansion. He says he like to do Uli's but guess what?? that also causes backpressure. Does he really think that when you Uli blood isn't trying to flow boack?? It has to because it has nowhere else to go... The only way to jelq or Uli with out increasing back pressure is to perform it flaccid. How effective would that be??

Timbuck was pro uli and seemed to be very much against clamping but guess what?? Clamping is in essence an uli... but instead of using your hand which fatigues, you use a mechanical device which doesn't. This allows you to do the exercize longer. The forces applied are the same. As far as intensity goes, my ulis are just as intense as when i use a clamp... that is, until my hands get tired.

Jack · 08-20-2008, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sikdogg

He was correct to some extent in that the penis does not respond well to back pressure. This is especially true with newbies and why we alway advocate starting slow and working the intensity slowly over time. The fact is that the body is the most advanced machine that we know of and has the ability to adapt to physical stresses as long as it's applied slowly and over time. This has been proven time and again every single day. The body was never designed to bench press 700lbs or squat 1000lbs but people have done it. These feats didn't happen overnight but over a course of years/decades before these bodies were able to adapt enough the support these lifts. Our body's ability to adapt doesn't end with skeletal muscles.

Another thing Timbuck is skipping over is that EVERY SINGLE GIRTH EXERCIZE INCLUDING JELQING AND ULI CREATES EXCESS BACK PRESSURE. Back pressure is what causes engorement which in turns causes expansion. He says he like to do Uli's but guess what?? that also causes backpressure. Does he really think that when you Uli blood isn't trying to flow boack?? It has to because it has nowhere else to go... The only way to jelq or Uli with out increasing back pressure is to perform it flaccid. How effective would that be??

Timbuck was pro uli and seemed to be very much against clamping but guess what?? Clamping is in essence an uli... but instead of using your hand which fatigues, you use a mechanical device which doesn't. This allows you to do the exercize longer. The forces applied are the same. As far as intensity goes, my ulis are just as intense as when i use a clamp... that is, until my hands get tired.

Thank you so much Sikdogg!

I did have a concern about back pressure and jelqing early on and these posts brought it back.

What you are saying makes total sense, clamping or jelqing does create back pressure. The only thing that doesn't is stretching or hanging.

I became interested in the discussion on hanging. I haven't done it but now considering it and will investigate. I just don't want to cause irreparable damage so I will do my homework.

Thanks for the great response!

Jack

JonPop · 08-20-2008, 03:43 AM

Seems like you have gotten some good use from this thread Jack. Glad I brought it back out.

Jack · 08-20-2008, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonPop

Seems like you have gotten some good use from this thread Jack. Glad I brought it back out.

Thanks JP!

Really like the site and the people here!

Jack

JonPop · 08-22-2008, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack

Thanks JP!

Really like the site and the people here!

Jack

Well, dang. We really like you too.

Jack · 08-23-2008, 04:06 AM

thanks JP, same back at ya!

Jack

TheDickler · 10-16-2008, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Überschwanz

I must disagree here Timbuck. Check out a resource on the anatomy of the penis. It's not quite like your balloon example. Blood does not flow freely in any part of the human body. Insects have an open circulatory system but humans do not.

For example... if you put too much pressure on a certain part of the body for too long, how it goes numb and it takes time for blood to begin flowing their again, sometimes needing to be stimulated or forced.