gimel2

I'm not particularly too bothered about exact gains in inches or centimetres, so I don't measure as it can be disheartening, I just use the PJ for 10-15 minutes once a week.
I'm more interested in the visual aspect, after all, that's what's important right.

Anyway, I've been using it since January like this, 5 minutes warm up, 10 minutes PJing just to see if it is necessary to excercise so frequently to get results, (apart from the fact I get no bloody privacy in my house and things are awkward :)

Today I had a fleeting glance at my penis which happened to be erect as it was in the morning, and had quite a shock.

Beforehand, I was sure that I was getting reasonable gains due to the veiny appearance and hard erections +some mild girth gains which were apparent.

But this morning when I looked into the mirror, there was a very notable increase in girth in the mid-shaft area, very notable.

It seems strange that this has suddenly happened, and that it is localised and so prominent in the mid-shaft.

I was just curious to know if this had happened to anyone else, i.e. if they had growth like this, if so, did it even out.

Also, do you think it's really so necessary to work out so much to get gains?, I'm not so sure myself, after all, healing is where the growth takes place.

-Dave, tc guys

Rob

I have experienced apparent sudden gains. I'm not sure if the gains are really sudden, though. I think constant measurement would show that they are cumulative, and that you are only noticing when the amount of gain has reached a level to become visually appealing.

You can overwork the penis. The key is fatigue/recover cycling. That is why many have better gains with a 1 day on/ 1 day off schedule.

Regardless, congrats on your gains! That's why we're here.

Rob

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Timbuck

Intensity and consistency will equal gains. Healing has little to do with growing a bigger phalus; it is the weakening or breakdown of your existing shape or structure that will begin to result in gains. Your not working a muscle so the same rules do not apply.

Using that tool for 15min one day a week will result in nothing. The localized bulge maybe a result of your jelqing technique, you should jelq in a fashion that stimulates the full length of the shaft to eliminate asymetrical effects.

If it does not look "odd" or deformed in your perception than with good techniques your Johnson will progressively even out.

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Timbuck:

I will agree with you that intensity and consistency will equal gains. No argument there. But, I disagree with you from the stand point that healing DOES have much to do with growing a bigger dick. If your constantly working your dick and never giving it a chance to rest and heal, how then can it grow?

I realize it is not a muscle, but it's my belief as well as that of others on this forum that the penis itself will react to exercises and so forth in the same way the rest of the body does. You weaken the tissues through exercise, allow sufficient time for healing and growth, start over etc... just like weight lifting.

I'm no PE expert, and while I myself see 15 minutes, once per week with the PJ to be to little effort, I wouldn't necessarily say that that little effort will result in nothing. These are some pretty bold statements your making here. I don't agree with them.

Big Ziggi

Congrats on your gains Gimel2, I totally agree with Rob on the fatigue/recovery approach. I've found that it is typical for new members (like myself) to become enthusiastic about PJ'ing and wind up working out incorrectly. Its good to see that this is a concern for you.
I'll tell you what happened to me when I first joined the forum. I was following advice posted by Senior members that has made some good gains with their routine. Now this is natural, obviously if your goal is to make good gains in the less amount of time. The quickest way to success is to follow those that have already achieved it. But here is the problem with that analogy. Be it were, for example sake, plans to building a house. And it was already found that building the house in a certain order would have it up and done fairly quick. Instead of you going out and trying to figure were to start? When you can easily go to the Contractor and get the plans to complete the house quickly. This would be a perfect time to apply that analogy.

But the human body is'nt quite like a house made from lumber. You will find that some respond similar to the excersise, and some dont. Originally I tried the one day on, one day off routine, and that was'nt enough time for my body to recover. Its more like one day on, three to four days off!
As I've found this is what my body agree's with. Also their are a few more factors, intensity, nutrition, and rest. These factors can alter the time neccessary for you to recover. So to say that "A" amount of time is neccesary to achieve results. Or "B" amount of reps is neccesary to achieve results. I would have to disagree.
Its alot more complex than that.
I Hope this post, help put some light on this subject for both you, and other members of this forum.

Big Ziggi

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Big Ziggi has an extremely valid point here that I failed to touch on earlier. EVERYONE is different here at Betterman and everyone's body/dick is going to respond differently to the given workout regimen. That being said, I again support the fatigue/recovery theory.

Whatever gains you've gotten gimel2, congrats! If this current routine your on is working for you and more importantly, for your dick, then keep going with it.

Timbuck

Soreness and fatigue are the natural result of a disciplined PE regiment. This condition dissipates quickly; usually in about an hour your pink and happy again.

The prevailing theory is that PE activity results in microtears and cellular breakdown. The ensuing recovery than results in regeneration and lengthening. This is incorrect in my opinion, you can pinch your earlobe and stretch it tightly for an extended period; after this stretching it will be sore and sensitive but the condition will quickly pass unless you rip your ear off.

PE is working in a similar but not identical fashion due to the differences in physiology but the overall effect is the same. When you start PE the smallest blood vessels will explode in a way that will cause a prickly sensation but after a couple of weeks this condition is nolonger a factor.

Gimel, in his method, has squeezed his pipe in a way that has deformed the shaft near the frenulum. You must remember that with traditional jelqs the far end of the pipe will take the most abuse, so do not become to overzealous in the beginning because you do not want to pop your sidewall.

I believe in at least 5 day/week work outs with some days doubling your routine. The structures require weakening and improved elasticity inorder to increase its volumetric capacity. You do have to listen to your penis and not overwork the little fella but in my experience the soreness subsides quickly. On the other hand, a muscle will fatigue to exhaustion and it will be pretty much useless until a substantial recovery period is allowed.

PE requires consistent workouts, you must put the hours in over the week inorder to target growth. When you have achieved your goals it will require periodic maintenance or you will begin to lose your gains, it is just the nature of the therapy.

Überschwanz

I disagree here. It is well known that stretching the ear lobes will lengthen them over time. All you have to do is look to certain African tribes.

How would you lose your gains? The body has a natural tendency to either replicate what it already has (replacing dead cells) or growing (making new cells). Your body does not 'get rid' of connective tissue. Look at the forehead of any senior citizen and you will see plenty of wrinkles from that extra skin. Otherwise nobody would ever feel the desire to get a facelift.

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Timbuck

My analogy to the earlobe was to amplify my position on the so-called healing that is taking place. I do not disagree that permanent deformation cannot occur by stretching your lobe. The pain in this process is similar to PE, but once the pressure is removed the tissue returns to normalcy quite quickly (unlike your bicep muscle).

Your understanding of the physiological affects are different from mine. Due to the type of changes taking place during PE; primarily, elasticity of tissue and weakening of support structures, if you achieve a niner and than go on sabbatical for the next 12mos. your erectile physiology will begin to start its decline.

I have seen this in people that have sustained an injury or the woman has told the buck to leave it at the curb.

sikdogg

I would disagree with you here... i don't believe that you will lose much of your gains if you take some time off. You may lose a little bit but not much. My belief is that gains from PE is mostly due to the deformation of collagenous tissues (ligs and tunica). These tissues are very inelastic so once they have been deformed, they typically don't go back. This is very different than doing the splits where most of the stretch is occuring at the muscle tissues which are in fact very elastic.

JonPop

I'm usually pretty good at puzzles, but this statement has me stumped.
Please explain this one to me. JP

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I've got a Tiger by the Tail

Big Ziggi

I think this thread has brought a very interesting conflict to light. It seems that members of this forum have different opinions on what actually is happening with the penis erectile tissue during/after a workout?

Does the body generate new erectile tissue cells to compensate for the increased blood flow throughout the penis?

Or are the gains just deformation brought on by the continuous exhaustion of the erectile tissue?

I think this one can be resolved with some hard facts.

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JP: I'm with you buddy. That statement confused me also I just didn't care enough about it to post. Glad you did though.

As far as the science behind why the penis gets larger is concerned, I think everyone is going to have their own theory. From a personal stand point, I really don't care about the "why's", I just care that it does. I've exercised mine now for 7 consecutive months. I have been consistent and thorough with my routine and have never given up on this. And, I've got a much bigger dick to show for my efforts. I don't know what's happened that made it get bigger, I only know that it has and that's all that is important to me.

Timbuck

My reference is to a significant other that somehow thwarts the PE process. Or, your inlaws move in and do not enjoy the "dumbell hanging off the penis look."

The theories are important in eliminating wasted effort. For example, if you do not believe there are tears occuring during your stretch or hang than the logic to walk through the mall with golf rings on your "thingy" to promote some so-called regeneration or "cementing gains" is nolonger a valid method.

In PE every exercise takes the form of a jelq or a hang/stretch. Everyone sort of adopts their technique over a short period of time and then usually sticks with it. Experimenting with different manipulations is always an option but the work in this area always comes down to the fundamentals ie the jelq and the stretch.

The water has really become muddied with 50 different variations for squeezing your penis and subjecting this fella to the rack. All of your gains can be achieved through the elementary exercises but people get carried away (understandable) so you end up having some pretty confused newbies. What should I try next??

sikdogg

I believe that gains from PE are in fact mostly from the deformation of ligs and tunica, but that's not to say that the theory of microtears and cellular regeneration is without merit. I also believe that cellular expansion does occur as the tunica is expanded. This is confirmed by people like Bib and his students that hang almost exclusively and still experience girth gains.

The body is always in the process of regeneration so yes that is correct. As you force blood into the corpora cavernosa, you are in fact expanding the spongy tissues as they are very elastic. The problem is that the spongy tissues are contained by the tunica which is very inelastic. As you expand the spongy tissues you also force the tunica to expand and if done with sufficient force over time, expansion will occur. That said, you are correct on both parts. The explanation of how PE works isn't whether you believe in cellular generation or if you believe in deformation brought on by the continuous exhaustion of the erectile tissue as they both work hand in hand.

If you do research on this and other boards, you will find lots of facts that once pieced together, gives a muddy picture of how it all works.

I agree in that understanding how PE works benefits us all in how to structure a routine that will produce the best gains. Here's some good info on plastic/elastic theory that was originally posted on another board:

Plastic/Elastic Theory... and achieving some freaky gains...

Yes, there are only two fundamental methods for expanding the penis... stretch it and engorge it. All exercizes are merely variations of the simple stretch and engorgement. That said, how you apply the stretch and engorgement makes a huge difference as they can be applied to different parts of the penis and at different angles to target the areas that you want to expand.

I believe that the people that are confused are the one who haven't done any research on the topic. I think that a basic routine will allow 98% of all newbies to see some gains and only after they hit a plateau should they beginn to look at more "advanced" exercizes. It's really very simple... our own eagerness to force our penis' to make faster gains is our undoing.

Timbuck

This to me is the area of "troubled waters," in relative terms, the penis is a very small animal in the forest and when you grab it hard the entire cylinder trembles. Now, I am not saying you cannot shape and sculpt your unit in the fashion of a play-doh fun factory, but I am saying why would you want to. If you have some affliction e.g. curvature or hour-glass shape, than you might want to experiment with localized pressure, otherwise, the traditional base squeeze will do the damage.

I have never done anything other than the traditional "squeeze play," and the reliable hang. This focused approach has yielded a fine shaped hogg. It's so simple and straight-forward, its scary. "Targeting areas you want to expand," is just not necessary since the whole schwanz will respond to the common jelq. I have increased girth uniformly (inch and half) without horsing around. These other methods represent torture methods from the early inquisition; yes, they affect the areas but it is just not necessary. Putting that kind of stress is just not real safe and the potential for permanent injury is high.

I am still waiting for the post that exclaims, "Today while doing some metalwork the idea of putting my penis in a vise and closing the jaws came to me. Well, I just had to try it and geez, what a workout, but I would not recommend it for newbies."

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Timbuck:

I am actually going to agree with most of your post here. What you are basically advocating is the simple, straight forward approach to PE (if I understand this post correctly). I agree. I think the basics of PE and consistently sticking with those basics will get you the results guys ultimately desire.

Everyone here is going to have their own opinions or views of PE and everyone is going to have their own theory as to why PE works. As for myself, I've tried pumping and clamping and a host of other methods that have simply turned me off. I prefer to keep things simple and easy. You don't get much easier and simpler than jelqing, squeezing or hanging. Again, I agree with you.

I don't think, however, that anyone on Betterman is stupid enough to stick their dick in a vice grip for an "extreme" type of workout. To assume such a thing to me is ludicrous.

2cents

There are a lot of interesting and certainly noteworthy arguments being made here, and while I am tempted to throw in a few more complexities, I think it best instead to simplify the argument, especially for those newbies and others who are reading this with a great deal of confusion.

I will not comment on building muscle and how it relates to PE, but just think about this. People all know basically how to gain muscle - stress the body, give it the proper conditions to grow, let it do so, and repeat. Certain exercises work certain parts. What's the one best way to get big? You might ask Schwarzennegger, Dorian Yates, Ronnie Coleman, whomever you chose, and they might tell you the best way. For them.

These same people might comment on losing fat, which they had to do to show off their muscles. So might millions of others who diet for whatever reason. Ask any successful dieter and they might tell you what works. For them.

So too could you ask any who've made remarkable gains in their penis size, and you will still find varied answers, and as much as I'd like to know from others, and tell others if I could, there is no expert out there on me. And I am no expert on anyone else. So if you want to develop a personal strategy, and I certainly favor that idea, you must know what works best for you. To that end, the best I can say is keep an accurate record of what you do, measure fairly regularly - though I'd reccommend no more than once a month or so - and see for yourself what strategies work and don't. Yes, this takes patience, and yes, by all means keep up on what others do. Most importantly, be willing to take the time to learn about yourself, and watch how you feel and react. Regardless of how it is the body does it, find out how your body does it best. Not specific enough, true, but frankly I can't give any better advice.

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2cents:

Excellent post my friend. I was trying to say that myself just fell far short. Very profound and accurate statements you're making here. And, most importantly, statements that make complete and total sense. Nice job!

sikdogg

Timbuck, I agree with you in that a general approach is best as it will give even gains. But there are some that feel their glans is too small relative to their shaft so they want to focus on that to sort of "let it catch up" with their shaft girth. There are also people with a baseball bat shaped penis where the base is a little thinner than the rest of the shaft or vice versa and want a more even looking shaft. Yes for most people, the traditional exercizes will suffice, but for others it requires additional focus work to get their penis to where they are happy with it.

Timbuck

I know this train has already left the station and what people want to do to increase their size they will do. However, this is not a complex activity and people are really trying hard to make it that way.

When your jelqing one end of the pipe takes the trauma. People that work the plumbing backwards are playing with fire but have fun. You say that noone has used the vise, I meant that as an overstatement; but now that I think about it, it is not much of an overstatement.

For me, the angles do not make any difference, your LOT does not make any difference, clamping and ADS' are not necessary, these are just theories that hold more potential for harm then good. The process cannot be expedited by choosing express mail over ground delivery.

I say these things as a sober person that has used just the traditional methods over 2years and now has a penis that more closely resembles a trunk. I am only trying to offer a little sanity to an arena that has gone insane.

I am surprised there are not more veterans that speak out against some of the peculiar methods prescribed in this forum, I am kind of new here and have not read everything but the mainstream seems to be looking hard at that Stanley vise.

I know people are different and may require different approaches, but for me and some of my buddies this activity is like fixing a broken arm. Put it in a cast for 3 weeks, maybe a sling for a short period and then strengthen the muscles. You do not have to hang by your teeth and humm mantras while rubbing snake oil on the fractured region.

Überschwanz

Timbuck do you think you could stop speaking in metaphors? If you want to say something, say it; don't beat around the bush.

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sikdogg

Fact is that you can expidite the process by focussing on certain exercize that apply more stress on the areas that you want to improve upon. This is science... whether you like it or not, this is how the body works, if you apply more stress to a particular muscle or tissue it will respond in kind by becoming stronger, longer, or bigger in order to overcome the stress. What you can't seem to grasp is that clamping and ADS' are just move efficient ways of accomplishing what the jelq and manual stretching does. Would you rather drive or walk to the store, both will get you there, but driving is just more efficient.

People like you think that what works for you is the only way... you're wrong. You can develop your leg muscles from running and doing sprints alone, but you can accelerate your leg development by adding other exercizes like squats, lunges, extensions, and leg curls to target the areas you want more development.

Comparing a broken arm to PE is apples to oranges. Recovery from a broken arm requires nothing on your part to heal, just time. Whereas PE requires specific efforts on your part to make improvements much like exercize does. You say that you know that poeple require different approaches but this whole post and your previous post bashes the idea of doing different approaches and advocates just doing jelqs and manual stretching.

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Uber and Sikdogg have valid points. Timbuck, you seem to have a "know it all" attitude that you've displayed since you joined here. Not everyone is YOU! Not everyone is going to go along with what YOU think! Everyone on this forum does WHAT WORKS FOR THEM. That seems to be a concept you refuse to see.

Yes, I'm pissed at reading your posts. And yes, I am going to speak my mind. If you've found methods that work for you Timbuck, then great. But, please be considerate and respectful to those of us here who might do things a little differently than your way of thinking will understand.

pleaser

I think there are a number of theories about the how and why of PE that are reasonable. Others have studied the anatomy and physiology far more than I have, and some have supplemented this with a study of the effects of various nutrients. Unfortunately, the things that are lacking are true scientific studies -- double blind tests of various methods and supplements performed over long periods of time. Even autopsy examinations of PE'd penises would be invaluable. We are not likely to have the benefit of any of this in our lifetimes. So, we're left to our own judgements and opinions as to who to believe, who to trust, and ultimately to try and listen to our bodies' responses.

I think it is very helpful to have a DISCUSSION (not an argument) about various ideas and theories, but I have to agree that when someone takes a tone of absolutism, I am very turned off. We've seen this a few times recently.

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