Why is it...

sikdogg · 06-04-2005, 01:05 AM

that women want to be treated as equals and yet still expect men to open doors and pull out chairs for them??? If they really wanted equality, they should be willing to do the same for men... so what is it... equality or chivalry???

My wife prefers the latter... anyone have any thoughts on this??

Überschwanz · 06-04-2005, 01:09 AM

Not all women these days demand chivalry. I have a friend who practically always insists on opening the door for me. Even if I wait to take the door from her and let her through, she insists I go first. I think it's just a matter of personal preference although I do admit it would be easier for us guys if there were one simple way to approach the issue with all women. Hey, there isn't and that's what makes life exciting.

10 · 06-04-2005, 01:23 AM

Well, I'll throw my experiences in here. I prefer to use chivalry on women. I was brought up that way and I just like doing it. It's who and what I am with women.

Yes guys, you knew this was coming. My ex of course, as in most facets of my married life, was the exception to that rule. She demanded equality and didn't like the chivalry treatment. Heck, even when our kids would back talk her and I'd come in and tell the kids not to speak to their mother that way, she'd get soooo pissed at me. She felt she could fight her own battles and didn't need me around. Needless to say, she got her wish.

So, while some women definitely do like the chivalry treatment, not all do, as I found out.

pleaser · 06-04-2005, 01:29 AM

I think there are areas where equality is significant, and areas where equitable differences are significant.

Important areas for true equality between the sexes might be equal pay for equal work, equal opportunity for advancement, equal respect for intelligence and ability, etc.

Areas where nice but equitable differences between the sexes could be -- You hold the door for her on a date, and she wears pretty clothes and nice perfume. You do some chores for her when she wants (within reason) and she doesn't complain (too much) when you come home stinking drunk at 3:00 AM after a night out with the guys. I say this is equitable because imagine the flip side! It works better the way it is.

All that being said, there is a difference between manners, chivalry, etc. and common sense. I would expect a woman to hold the door for ME if I were carrying something, or if its raining and she got there first, etc. If she is so caught up in who opens doors for whom, she is not for me.

I don't get too caught up in the "fairness" of it all. As long as she and I are happy, its OK. If you and yours are NOT happy, then it is NOT OK.

My 2 cents!

Succubus · 06-04-2005, 02:22 AM

I don't think that the size of your penis matters to all women,unless the woman is a size queen. If I were looking for a guy,The qualities that I'd look for are,a guy who listens to my opinion and likes to have fun.

10 · 06-04-2005, 04:00 AM

OK Succubus, so size wouldn't be your first attention getter? You'd be looking more for the "inner" qualities of a man and not his physical attributes or lack thereof? In your honest opinion, and being a woman, do you think that most women out there think like that? I'm asking seriously by the way, not sarchastically.

Succubus · 06-04-2005, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanna10incher

OK Succubus, so size wouldn't be your first attention getter? You'd be looking more for the "inner" qualities of a man and not his physical attributes or lack thereof? In your honest opinion, and being a woman, do you think that most women out there think like that? I'm asking seriously by the way, not sarchastically.

Honestly, when you meet someone you don't see the size of there penis. I think there are alot of women out there that do think like that. It all depends on if your looking for a one night stand or to get laid.
No size isn't the first thing on my mind when I met someone. I have been intimate with other guys besides my husband, and some were bigger. Nine times out of ten bigger isn't always better. I wouldn't go out with an ugly guy, nor would I choose a man by his penis size.

I hope that I answered your question.

10 · 06-04-2005, 05:36 AM

Thanks for your perspective. I appreciate it. I'm not a one night stand kind of guy so I'm hoping that I eventually meet someone who likes my personality, character and heart rather than what's in my pants.

sikdogg · 06-04-2005, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Succubus

Honestly, when you meet someone you don't see the size of there penis...

You hit the nail on the head there... we men fail to realize this one simple fact. We are so obsessed with our dick size and women's T&A's that we automatically believe that most women feel as we do. It's different hearing this from a woman other than a spouse because you have nothing at stake when responding to these types of questions. My wife has at time said the same thing and i want to believe her but i'm not always sure if she's just trying to apease my insecurities.

10 · 06-04-2005, 02:48 PM

What insecurities Dogg?? You're easily one of the most secure guys I've ever met!! Seriously bro. If anything, even at this stage of my PE career, I'd still be afraid to whip it out thinking it's still too small to do anything with. A hang up I've really got to get over.

jennifer · 06-04-2005, 10:44 PM

Hi Sikdogg:

I do not know if I agree with your basic premise that all women expect "chivalry" to be so important to them. I would not be at impressed with a guy, who although he opens and closes doors for me, etc, talks and treats me very disrespectfully.

Obviously, all women are different and many may view "chivalrous" acts as a preview of your overall personality. As Lisa mentoned, only women with very low self esteem are going to be impressed or obsessed with a guy simply because he has a very large penis.

So, I guess what I'm saying, it never hurts to make a good impression on someone you want to impress!

Jen

GRX · 06-11-2005, 08:13 PM

Nothing goes farther than chivalry and respect.

If you don't have it; learn it, don't fake it. Women are very smart and will see right through.

10 · 06-11-2005, 11:41 PM

Well said GRX! Although, there are a rare exception of women out there who for whatever reason like being treated like shit by an asshole. I don't know why, they just do. I have a friend who fits that description to a "t".

sikdogg · 06-12-2005, 12:35 AM

It's all about self-esteem... without it, they don't think they deserve better or believe/know that they can get better...

10 · 06-12-2005, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sikdogg

It's all about self-esteem... without it, they don't think they deserve better or believe/know that they can get better...

Lots of truth here my friend. This friend I was referring to, a very good friend of mine I've known for almost 15 years now, she's got this husband who is such an ass to her. She's got a heart of gold and will do anything for her friends and absolutely puts her infant daughter first, but this jerk she's married to walks all over her, treats her like complete (and I mean COMPLETE) crap and she puts up with it and takes it. Because we've been very good friends for so long, I've told her point blank what I think of this guy she's married to and while she admits it, she won't do anything about it. She just keeps allowing him to disrespect her, walk all over her, treat her like a second class citizen........I just don't get it.

sikdogg · 06-12-2005, 06:41 AM

The sad part is that you can keep telling her that 'til you're blue in the face and it won't change her one bit... She has to come to that conclusion all on her own before she will take any action.

GRX · 06-12-2005, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanna10incher

Lots of truth here my friend. This friend I was referring to, a very good friend of mine I've known for almost 15 years now, she's got this husband who is such an ass to her. She's got a heart of gold and will do anything for her friends and absolutely puts her infant daughter first, but this jerk she's married to walks all over her, treats her like complete (and I mean COMPLETE) crap and she puts up with it and takes it. Because we've been very good friends for so long, I've told her point blank what I think of this guy she's married to and while she admits it, she won't do anything about it. She just keeps allowing him to disrespect her, walk all over her, treat her like a second class citizen........I just don't get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sikdogg

The sad part is that you can keep telling her that 'til you're blue in the face and it won't change her one bit... She has to come to that conclusion all on her own before she will take any action.

MY REPLY IS OFF-TOPIC FROM ORIGINAL POST: please don't punish me too severely!
Sounds to me like the guy is the one who needs to change, not the woman. Have you ever tried working with/talking to/ praying for him? I think too often when there is a problem in a relationship, we just label the misbehavor as a "jerk" and don't try to help them. How can we expect them to become better people so they can fix their relationship if NOBODY is willing to try to work with them? Some people may say that if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem.

Sorry for getting off-topic...

...and now back to your originally scheduled thread already in progress. !

sikdogg · 06-12-2005, 08:35 AM

No punishment necessary...

Yes the guy definitely needs to change but the problem is that guys who are abusive have a predatory mentality and are rarely open to change. The reason that we focus on convincing the woman to change is that she should be made to understand that she is not in a healthy relationship and doesn't have to put up with it. She should also know that she has the power to change her situation by simply saying "enough is enough" and walking away.

Personally, i don't give a rat's ass about the guy... he can rot in hell for all i care, in fact i'd be very happy to send him on his way. The first priority should be with helping the woman to find the strength within herself to be able to stand strong and find a man who will love and care for her.

jennifer · 06-12-2005, 01:00 PM

Unfortunately, this poor woman suffers from very low self esteem. So, Wanna10incher, my advice is to continue to be her friend and in a very subtle, diplomatic manner, try to get her to talk to someone else. Maybe a minister, counselor, etc.

Until she gets the help, nothing is going to change in this realtionship.

10 · 06-12-2005, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jennifer

Unfortunately, this poor woman suffers from very low self esteem. So, Wanna10incher, my advice is to continue to be her friend and in a very subtle, diplomatic manner, try to get her to talk to someone else. Maybe a minister, counselor, etc.

Until she gets the help, nothing is going to change in this realtionship.

I've tried talking to her. You all are absolutely correct. HE has been given every possible opportunity to get help. In fact, he was in counceling and rehab for a while and ended up hooking up with a crack whore and had an affair. AND SHE STILL KEPT HIS ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(And, just to show you what type of beautiful woman she is inside, her infant daughter was the product of his affair with this crack whore who continued to use drugs while pregnant. So, my friend felt bad for the baby and adopted her. The biological mother still hops into and out of jail constantly for drug violations!!)

But, in any event, she's become one of my closest friends over the past 15 years that we've known each other. I do think she has self esteem issues and in some respects, I think she thinks she DESERVES this type of mal treatment from this asshole she's married to. And, they have tried to go to couples counceling, either professional counceling or through their local church and it usually falls apart because he fails to go or refuses to go. Nice guy!

Überschwanz · 06-12-2005, 05:02 PM

10, have you and some of her other friends tried an intervention? I hate to say this but it's for cases like this that divorce was invented.

10 · 06-12-2005, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Überschwanz

10, have you and some of her other friends tried an intervention? I hate to say this but it's for cases like this that divorce was invented.

Yeah, I've recommended it. She keeps telling me she's not going to tolerate any more of his garbage but she keeps doing it. Supposedly, she's threatened him a few times recently that if he keeps it up, his stuff will be on the porch waiting for him when he gets home and this time he's not allowed back. I've also heard this before from her.

I'll make this easy. I have tried and recommended EVERYTHING. I think she is so fixated on being married and having someone in her life to love and nurture that despite the bad treatment, she keeps him around so that she doesn't have to be alone. I also think as Dogg had mentioned earlier that her self esteem is so bad that she's willing to put up with anything to have a husband. Very, very sad situation. I keep telling her life is too short to continue living like this but it does no good. She HEARS me but doesn't LISTEN.

Überschwanz · 06-12-2005, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanna10incher

Yeah, I've recommended it.

Don't recommend it, DO IT. If you have to lie to her to get her to go with you, then do it. Take her somewhere where all her friends will be waiting and take action.

10 · 06-12-2005, 08:02 PM

Uber, it's just not that easy. Have you ever heard the phrase: "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink?" That wise old saying was created for situations such as this. Until she wakes up and realizes it's never going to change and until she gets good and fed up with how she's being treated, she will continue to live this way. It's sad but she obviously doesn't mind it too badly otherwise she'd have done something about it by now. It's sad to sit back and listen to all of the crap he does to her but it's her life and she has to make the decision to take action, no one else can. All I can do is what I've been doing since she married the ass in 1999, be a friend.

10 · 06-12-2005, 08:06 PM

I am going to throw this in as this may help shed some light in the situation. She comes from an EXTREMELY disfunctional family. No one in the family takes any responsibility for their actions and they expect her to be the pilar of salt when things go bad, which is constantly. So, being that she was raised this way, it's easy to see that the sad situation is simply repeating itself.

GRX · 06-12-2005, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRX

I think too often when there is a problem in a relationship, we just label the misbehavor as a "jerk" and don't try to help them. How can we expect them to become better people so they can fix their relationship if NOBODY is willing to try to work with them?

..........

madame_zora · 06-14-2005, 11:59 PM

I'm new here, but I thought this was worth responding to.
Wanna, you are right that she will only change her situation IF she feels compelled to do so. No one will appreciate being blindsided by her friends and she may feel that you have turned against her if you try to force her to make a change. Sadly, many women fall into this category, our society has nurtured this behavior. Hard as it is, the only thing you can really do for her is let her know how you feel and that you'll be there for her if she needs you, but then let her live her life, mistakes and all. If she ever does come around, she'll appreciate the fact that she did it on her own. Best of luck to you, that's a tough one.

GRX · 06-15-2005, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madame_zora

I'm new here...

Welcome to Betterman!

madame_zora · 06-15-2005, 12:26 AM

Yay! I'm welcome somewhere! *swings from a vine doing the happy dance*

SonicCelt · 06-15-2005, 12:48 AM

Welcome Zora, I know you from another forum that I'm sure all these gents here would be happy to qualify size wise some day (not that is a prerequisite as there are some average sizes as well).

Anywho... regarding our disfunctional little relationship that is hitting 10's heartstrings, I have seen these gals in these relationships get out only to seek out the exact same thing. It's sad but it is a comfort zone for them and to be in a loving caring relation would put them right out of sorts and usually they become the abuser not the abusee. I'm no Sigmund but short of a good brainwashing I wonder if there is any hope for her. The glass is always half full for me but I can't see her changing, even with a intervention.

GRX · 06-15-2005, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicCelt

The glass is always half full for me...

Being an engineer; I always considered the glass to be twice as large as it needs to be.