Current Events - Page 4

Überschwanz · 09-16-2006, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10

Actually, knowing you as I do, I'm not totally sure I understand why this surprises me. This isn't a bad thing Ube, so don't get your panties all waded up ok. I've actually had things that I've witnessed in life that have made me question the very presence of God. I don't know......it's all too confusing sometimes........I consider myself a hard core liberal....

I wasn't getting my panties all wadded up. I was just explaining why.

Überschwanz · 09-16-2006, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kal

That's interesting. When it comes to the Xian God, I'm a strong atheist. When it comes to any other gods, I'm an agnostic. Because the attributes given to the bible God are contradictory. Other religions don't claim their diety is all-anything, so it is possible they can exist, outside of my realm of knowlege. So, you can say I'm an agnostic-atheist.

Stephen Colbert says agnostics are atheists without balls.

10 · 09-16-2006, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Überschwanz

I wasn't getting my panties all wadded up. I was just explaining why.

I know you weren't, but you can get a tad excitable Mr. Schwanz, I just wanted to head that off at the pass. What the hell is an "agnostic"???

kal · 09-16-2006, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Überschwanz

Stephen Colbert says agnostics are atheists without balls.

So, Rummy said he knows where Iraq has WMDs. What's the point? People like to talk. Talk is cheap.

Überschwanz · 09-16-2006, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kal

So, Rummy said he knows where Iraq has WMDs. What's the point? People like to talk. Talk is cheap.

You're not a Stephen Colbert fan are you kal?

Überschwanz · 09-16-2006, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10

What the hell is an "agnostic"???

One step short of an atheist. They say that it's futile to debate the existance or lack of existance of a God because such a thing is inherently unknowable and hence it really doesn't matter to them if there's a God or not.

kal · 09-16-2006, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Überschwanz

You're not a Stephen Colbert fan are you kal?

I'd be able to answer this, if I knew who he was.

Überschwanz · 09-16-2006, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kal

I'd be able to answer this, if I knew who he was.

He's on Comedy Central. He pretends to be a conservative but he's actually a liberal and you realize just how stupid the president's policies are when he mockingly defends them.

By the way, I studied a little Russian.

Я немного понимаю по-русский.

happy stud · 09-16-2006, 04:16 AM

I aint gonna argue with any of you but saying you aint gonna vote because an election hadnt gone the way youd like for it to go is childish. Thats what these fuckers want you to do that is to get discouraged then only there people will vote and that means theyll win even more damn elections. Naw man the answer is to get pissed and tell everybody how fucked up everything is and rile there ass up so it will get them off there ass and go vote the fuckers out of office. It may not happen every time youd like for it to happen but sooner or later people will wake up from being a bunch of damn puppets and vote these assholes out.

happy stud · 09-16-2006, 04:19 AM

I also aint gonna argue with ya'll about religion because there aint no proof that will adequately satisfy those that dont believe. Either you believe that Jesus came down from Heaven and died for us or you dont. Just because things are fucked up way bad in this world doesnt mean there aint no God.

Überschwanz · 09-16-2006, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happy stud

I also aint gonna argue with ya'll about religion because there aint no proof that will adequately satisfy those that dont believe. Either you believe that Jesus came down from Heaven and died for us or you dont. Just because things are fucked up way bad in this world doesnt mean there aint no God.

I'm not atheist because the world is fucked up stud. I'm atheist because I believe everything can be explained by either logical or scientific means. Don't feel sorry for me. I'm quite happy seeing the world that way.

kal · 09-16-2006, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happy stud

Just because things are fucked up way bad in this world doesnt mean there aint no God.

Ummm. It means there's no omnibenevolent and omnipotent God. No Xian God.

kal · 09-16-2006, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happy stud

I aint gonna argue with any of you but saying you aint gonna vote because an election hadnt gone the way youd like for it to go is childish.

Well you didn't say my name, but I assume you're talking about me here. The way our current system is aranged, with the electoral college and all, the candidate who gets the most votes doesn't even win necessarily. It's all up to the 6 or 8 swing states where votes matter. That's democracy for ya.

Überschwanz · 09-16-2006, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kal

Ummm. It means there's no omnibenevolent and omnipotent God. No Xian God.

First of all, I was raised Roman Catholic (and prefer the word Christian as opposed to Xian).

Secondly, what about Allah? He's not a Judeo-Christian God (no matter what some politically correct people would like to believe). The Islamic Allah and Christian/Jewish God/Yahweh are actually two different deities if one is familiar with the histories of all three religions, particularly Islam.

kal · 09-16-2006, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Überschwanz

First of all, I was raised Roman Catholic (and prefer the word Christian as opposed to Xian).

Note taken.

Quote:

Secondly, what about Allah? He's not a Judeo-Christian God (no matter what some politically correct people would like to believe). The Islamic Allah and Christian/Jewish God/Yahweh are actually two different deities if one is familiar with the histories of all three religions, particularly Islam.

Well, as far as I know, Allah isn't thought of as all-knowing, all-powerful, everywhere at once, and perfectly good. All these properties are only attributed to the Christian God, and they are all contradictory. The Christian God cannot exist. As for any other gods, that's up in the air.

Überschwanz · 09-16-2006, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kal

Well, as far as I know, Allah isn't thought of as all-knowing, all-powerful, everywhere at once, and perfectly good. All these properties are only attributed to the Christian God, and they are all contradictory. The Christian God cannot exist. As for any other gods, that's up in the air.

Let me go off on a tangent for a moment. Fundamentalist Islam prohibits all sorts of body modification (piercings, tattoos, makeup, etc.) because Islam teaches that the human body was created by Allah, and Allah, being a perfect being, made the body, you guessed it, perfect and it should not be changed. Fundamentalist Christianity makes the same prohibition and uses the same reasoning.

kal · 09-16-2006, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Überschwanz

Let me go off on a tangent for a moment. Fundamentalist Islam prohibits all sorts of body modification (piercings, tattoos, makeup, etc.) because Islam teaches that the human body was created by Allah, and Allah, being a perfect being, made the body, you guessed it, perfect and it should not be changed. Fundamentalist Christianity makes the same prohibition and uses the same reasoning.

Yes, Christianity is what I am most familiar with, being a christian for some 14 years or so. I know for a fact that the Christian God is afforded the omnimax attributes, hence it's existence is impossible. I'd say if the Muslim God is attributed the omnimax attributes, it also cannot exist.

88man · 09-16-2006, 06:17 AM

Kal, so your saying that you dont beleive there is a god?? Christian god? Why are you saying that god cannot exist??

kal · 09-16-2006, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88man

Kal, so your saying that you dont beleive there is a god?? Christian god? Why are you saying that god cannot exist??

Because the Christian diety has contradictory properties. I'll give a few examples here. It's thought of that he's omnipotent, correct. That means he can do anything, nothing is impossible for him. We'll this verse says otherwise. And let's backtrack a little to the flood. Now, God drowned quite a few people to seperate the good (9 people) from the bad. If he is omniscient (knows all) then he knew when he created humans that he'd have to drown everyone in such an uncivilized fashion. The mere fact that he still went through with it, shows he's either not omnibenevolent (perfectly good, loving), or not omnipotent. Because if he is all-powerful, why would he have to kill little babies, insects, birds, fish, etc. along with the bad? I'd think an omnipotent diety could just use magic or something to solvent the problem.

Überschwanz · 09-16-2006, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kal

I'd think an omnipotent diety could just use magic or something to solvent the problem.

But that would defeat the entire purpose of religion. Some things just aren't known and many things in our world clearly contradict (e.g. If one believes human beings are inherently good, why is there racism?).

Finally, unlike Islam, Christianity (or at least Roman Catholocism as opposed to fundamentalist Christianity) teaches that the Bible is not the word of God, but that it was inspired by God. This is how the Catholic Church tries to explain all the contradictions contained within it and the Church encourages its members to get to know God better on a personal level rather than simply take everything correct.

Finally, getting back to your Bible quote, this approach can be used to ask if God had some higher purpose by not intervening. That doesn't mean he isn't omnipotent.

JonPop · 09-16-2006, 04:20 PM

My thoughts? We as human beings...
Live in a dim inkling or a rapt afterness.

southern belle · 09-16-2006, 05:13 PM

I personally believe in God. I do not like people who constantly try to cram their religious or non-religious beliefs down somene throats, however. I am not saying anyone here is doing that, so I don't want anyone to misunderstand. Believing in God requires a great amount of faith and believe because there is not any scientific means of proof that God does exist.

SonicCelt · 09-16-2006, 07:29 PM

There is more "scientific" evidence for faith in Christianity in archeology, historical literature and even biology. The bible and existance of God (in 3 persons) is easier to prove than any other faith or religion out there.To say there is not enough evidence means you just have not done enough research. To say that you do not beleive means that God has not called you yet. I like that fact that you search hard kal and you seem to have a hunger for this topic and are looking for answers (I've seen you bring faiths up on other boards and debate vigorously) and I think that is great. God made us with free will, he did not create robots that would just be autonomic in beleif and service and crys at our choices and disasters. He does know all as we know our past and he knows our future much like we know the contents of a book we have read, to say he is responsible for this in error. Keep searching everybody, like Fox Mulner says "The truth is out there"

10 · 09-16-2006, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicCelt

There is more "scientific" evidence for faith in Christianity in archeology, historical literature and even biology. The bible and existance of God (in 3 persons) is easier to prove than any other faith or religion out there.To say there is not enough evidence means you just have not done enough research. To say that you do not beleive means that God has not called you yet. I like that fact that you search hard kal and you seem to have a hunger for this topic and are looking for answers (I've seen you bring faiths up on other boards and debate vigorously) and I think that is great. God made us with free will, he did not create robots that would just be autonomic in beleif and service and crys at our choices and disasters. He does know all as we know our past and he knows our future much like we know the contents of a book we have read, to say he is responsible for this in error. Keep searching everybody, like Fox Mulner says "The truth is out there"

I'm impressed Sonic. Actually, I do believe. Sometimes my faith is questioned at put to the test (when I see or hear of child abuse/neglect or sexual molestation). Many times, I'll ask my mom who is a very devout christian woman........one of the world's best examples of a truly compassionate human being (and she's my mom!!). My mother will actually point out things to me that I hadn't even considered. Bottom line is, at the end of each day, the only entity I thank for my health, my kids' health and the health and well being of my friends and family is God himself.

happy stud · 09-16-2006, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kal

Well you didn't say my name, but I assume you're talking about me here. The way our current system is aranged, with the electoral college and all, the candidate who gets the most votes doesn't even win necessarily. It's all up to the 6 or 8 swing states where votes matter. That's democracy for ya.

Hey man my comments were in general and not directed to anyone in particular. The big problem in this country is people want to always make excuses about everything. All Im saying is if people would quit making excuses and vote there would be change. As far as people still complaining about the 2000 election and Bush stole it and all of that bullshit I never have heard an intelligent answer about if Gore hadnt been such an asshole and won his own home state of Tennessee then Florida would have been a moot point. As far as swing states goes just like the name implies they are going to swing. In 2000 it was Florida and in 2004 it was Ohio. Everybody has a chance to make a difference if they would be more open minded and not be so damn cynical and negative.