Too much testosterone kill brain cells

sikdogg · 09-28-2006, 11:05 PM

Here a flawed study that all you anti-steroid can latch onto as the end-all-be-all study to prove your claim that steroids are sooo bad.

What a joke...

Quote:

Reuters.com

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Too much testosterone can kill brain cells, researchers said on Tuesday in a finding that may help explain why steroid abuse can cause behavior changes like aggressiveness and suicidal tendencies.

Tests on brain cells in lab dishes showed that while a little of the male hormone is good, too much of it causes cells to self-destruct in a process similar to that seen in brain illnesses such as Alzheimer's.

"Too little testosterone is bad, too much is bad but the right amount is perfect," said Barbara Ehrlich of Yale University in Connecticut, who led the study.

Testosterone is key to the development, differentiation and growth of cells and is produced by both men and women, although men produce about 20 times more of the hormone.

It can also be abused, and recent scandals have involved athletes who use the hormone, or steroids that turn into testosterone in the body, for an unfair advantage.

"Other people have shown that high levels of steroid can cause behavioral changes," Ehrlich said in a telephone interview.

"We can show that when you have high levels of steroids, you have high testosterone and that can destroy the nerve cells. We know that when you lose brain cells you lose function."

Ehrlich's team tried the same thing with the "female" hormone estrogen, just to be fair.
"We were surprised, but it actually looks like estrogen is neuroprotective. If anything, there is less cell death in the presence of estrogen," she said.

Writing in the Journal of Biological Chemistry, Ehrlich and colleagues said their findings meant people should think twice about supplementing with testosterone, even if it does build muscle mass and aid recovery after exercise.

"These effects of testosterone on neurons will have long term effects on brain function," they wrote.

"Next time a muscle-bound guy in a sports car cuts you off on the highway, don't get mad -- just take a deep breath and realize that it might not be his fault," Ehrlich said in a statement.

The cells die via a process called apoptosis, also known as cell suicide or programmed cell death.

"Apoptosis is an important thing for the brain -- the brain needs to weed out some of the cells. But when it happens too frequently, you lose too many cells and causes problems."

A similar process is seen in Alzheimer's disease, the most common cause of dementia in the United States, affecting an estimated 4.5 million Americans, and Huntington's disease, another fatal brain illness.

"Our results suggest that the responses to elevated testosterone can be compared with these pathophysiological conditions," the researchers wrote.

Next > © Reuters 2006. All Rights Reserved.

SonicCelt · 09-28-2006, 11:45 PM

This explains a lot, over the years every time I see my family doctor he asks if I have taken andro or steroids

I assumed it is because I have acne, balding and have packed on a lot of mass over the years and in good shape. Now I know he thought this because I'm STUPID......duhhhh

Überschwanz · 09-29-2006, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sikdogg

Here a flawed study that all you anti-steroid can latch onto as the end-all-be-all study to prove your claim that steroids are sooo bad.

What a joke...

What's the flaw in the study? I don't think that short article was informative enough to say the study is or is not flawed.

sikdogg · 09-29-2006, 12:08 AM

The author is making alot of assumptions based on an in vitro study. It doesn't take into account other body functions in relation to the result. If the study was in vivo, it would hold much much more credibility.

In vitro really isn't evidence enough to draw the conclusions they are drawing in the article. They say estrogen is neuroprotective, which is it, but they didnt allow any estrogen in the experimental conditions? Since when is testosterone present but not estrogen? It sounds like a large amount of test is responsible for the damage, but what about the T to E ratio? In males, is the proper ratio of T to E, no matter the level, indicative of neurological health? Or is it the absolute level of T? I am inclined to think it is the ratio of T to E, or else women would be much smarter than men (unless there are other brain-protective processes that coudl correct for possible T damage).

Also, after reading the actual study the amount of test they used on the tissues is more than what any bodybuilder could ever take.

sikdogg · 09-29-2006, 12:11 AM

Since the researcher for this study was a woman, maybe she was just trying to find anything to discredit the "men are smarter" study...

longandthick · 11-25-2006, 04:31 AM

Well, how much is too much? Can 1000mg of L-Arginine each day lead to "too much testosterone"?

88man · 11-27-2006, 07:25 AM

NO. Just dont piss all over the place, or shit your ass off. LOL. Too much Arg. can sometimes make your shizz-at a little runney. No it wont give you "too much testosterone".

88man · 11-27-2006, 07:32 AM

Sonic and Sik. What do you think about Test Depo?? Cheap and effective....how about for a 3 wk cycle. ($9 a vial) My friend Vinney is 21 and is really considering this. As fellow builders of the BODY, whats your take on this?? Too young?

sikdogg · 11-27-2006, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longandthick

Well, how much is too much? Can 1000mg of L-Arginine each day lead to "too much testosterone"?

Arginine doesn't really do much to raise test...

sikdogg · 11-27-2006, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88man

Sonic and Sik. What do you think about Test Depo?? Cheap and effective....how about for a 3 wk cycle. ($9 a vial) My friend Vinney is 21 and is really considering this. As fellow builders of the BODY, whats your take on this?? Too young?

For a first cycle... test only is the best way to go. I think 21 is a little too young and would advise him against it, but it's his body...

88man · 11-27-2006, 02:25 PM

I thought he was too young as well. I tried telling him about the problems that will possibly arrise, but he wont really listen. The guy is too full of himself about his knowledge on the subject. But, I dont think he'll be doing a cycle anytime soon. I might have scared him about using too early.

adamander · 12-06-2006, 05:33 PM

88Man, do tell Vinney not to touch Testosterone injections at his age, not because of his brain but because it will shrink his balls and might give him permanent infertility.

adamander · 01-01-2007, 09:45 PM

Further to my previous reply on Testosterone injections, if one does ever have to take them they must also take a HIGH dose of Tribulus Terrestris capsules so that their hypothalamus and pituitary gland will produce more LH hormone (normally stimulates normal Testosterone production) as the injections alone would block one's natural testicular production of Testosterone through a negative feedback system acting on the pituitary gland. Please forgive the medical jargon.

sikdogg · 01-02-2007, 02:37 AM

Tribulus has marginal benefits at best... against the HPTA suppression that takes from steroid use, i seriously doubt that it will do anything. HCG is the best route...

Thick_Dick · 01-02-2007, 04:15 AM

Yah , watch this

http://www.steroidlaw.com/images/steroids_0002.wmv

Also , when they do those tests... there doing them on braincells in a dish , ok. Well it would react different in a human body. Because the human body would use up , absorb the testosterone , and the body also produces enough estrogen to even itself out with the testosterone. So I dont see how people can believe tests like that without doing a full on study on a human. They should give testosterone to people and then check there brain cells after a period of time

Überschwanz · 01-02-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thick_Dick

Yah , watch this

http://www.steroidlaw.com/images/steroids_0002.wmv

Also , when they do those tests... there doing them on braincells in a dish , ok. Well it would react different in a human body. Because the human body would use up , absorb the testosterone , and the body also produces enough estrogen to even itself out with the testosterone. So I dont see how people can believe tests like that without doing a full on study on a human. They should give testosterone to people and then check there brain cells after a period of time

While I do agree that the study is flawed, don't make the mistake of assuming that estrogen is somehow the 'opposite' of testosterone.

adamander · 01-02-2007, 08:03 PM

Interesting video. Estrogen is a breakdown product of testosterone chemically speaking.

Thick_Dick · 01-03-2007, 01:31 AM

I know that estrogen and testosterone arent opposites , but when your test levels raise your estrogen levels raise because of the aromatization so not just the test being flawed , but the two hormones would counteract alot of the effects that there saying the study because of this.

Thick_Dick · 01-03-2007, 01:33 AM

if you do enough research on google , you can find that there is a video talking about how the FDA did not want to bann steroids because they found no real health problems or side effects from steroids but congress went against the FDA's decision and banned it anyways.

maldoror · 01-11-2007, 10:28 PM

testosterone is simply a miracle drug and there is no such thing as too much. it helps brain and cognitive functions if anything. the media will always try and spin out this bs. test also makes your cock thicker and harder. all it;s sides can be controlled as well, which is more than i can say for alchohol etc..

Überschwanz · 01-11-2007, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maldoror

testosterone is simply a miracle drug and there is no such thing as too much. it helps brain and cognitive functions if anything. the media will always try and spin out this bs. test also makes your cock thicker and harder. all it;s sides can be controlled as well, which is more than i can say for alchohol etc..

With all due respect maldoror that point of view is ignorant and even dangerous. You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. For example, water seems harmless enough, but if you drink enough of it you can throw your electrolytes out of balance and stop your heart. Hormones are powerful things as well.

happy stud · 01-12-2007, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Überschwanz

For example, water seems harmless enough, but if you drink enough of it you can ...

And if you have enough of it like New Orleans did last year it can be very dangerous also.

maldoror · 01-14-2007, 02:21 AM

I am walking around now with a testosterone blood serum level about 1000 -2000 times higher than the normal man. all effects positive, in complete health. the only draw back is that the more you do the more yo0u need to feel the same effect. the pro bodybuilders make me look like woody allen. i encourage everyone to try test

maldoror · 01-14-2007, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happy stud

And if you have enough of it like New Orleans did last year it can be very dangerous also.

indeed , i was there volunteering, i can vouch for too much water delivered with fast winds being a bad thing, epically for a fish bowl shaped city

sikdogg · 01-14-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maldoror

I am walking around now with a testosterone blood serum level about 1000 -2000 times higher than the normal man. all effects positive, in complete health. the only draw back is that the more you do the more yo0u need to feel the same effect. the pro bodybuilders make me look like woody allen. i encourage everyone to try test

What bloodwork, if any, do you get done?? Just because you "feel" good doesn't mean that all is well... bloodwork will tell you when anything goes out of whack.

Loki · 01-14-2007, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maldoror

indeed , i was there volunteering, i can vouch for too much water delivered with fast winds being a bad thing, epically for a fish bowl shaped city

Maldoror,
Why don't you go to the The Men's Lounge and tell us about your experience?

JonPop · 05-24-2007, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki

Maldoror,
Why don't you go to the The Men's Lounge and tell us about your experience?

Yes, please do. Too much test can increase your red blood cell count to dangerous, i.e. stroke, heart attack levels. But Maldoror last posted to this thread on 1/13/07, so where is he?

SpeeD · 05-25-2007, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maldoror

testosterone is simply a miracle drug and there is no such thing as too much.

Maldoror, too much of ANYTHING is bad. The only exception I can think of is sex.

There's a reason they call it "steroid abuse". I do agree, however, that reasonable use of steroids is benefactory 99% of the time.

And that's coming from a steroid noobie (although I've become MUCH more informed on the subject, after hours upon hours of reading).