Lean Muscle Mass

rocky6535 · 02-09-2007, 04:07 AM

Can any of you bodybuilding gurus give me tips on building lean muscle mass without adding body fat? I currently lift for 4-5 hours per day 6 days a week. I focus on a particular muscle group each day and only double up on arms (where I feel that I need the most work). I eat a low fat diet and try to consume at least 240 grams of protein everyday (one gram for every pound of desired bodyweight). I spread it out in 40 gram increments throughout the day. I also take the supplements that JP suggested for PE as well as ginseng. I've gotten some decent results with this regimen over time, but I feel like I should be able to do better. I'd really appreciate any tips on workouts and/or nutrition.

slickwillie · 02-09-2007, 04:38 AM

I'm no guru on bodybuilding, but I would say to try and cut down on the 4-5 hours per day to 1-2 max. You might be overworking each muscle and the results you're seeing are more from the good eating and nutrition, than from the actual working out aspect?
My 2 cents...

rocky6535 · 02-09-2007, 05:24 AM

You could be right. I try to get a thorough and total tear down from each workout and then give a week of recovery time for total recovery (except for arms which is half a week). I usually give myself a good 1-2 minutes of rest in between each set too. Plus the gym I go to is packed with hot ladies whose bodies stay in motion, so I never want to leave.

Mr.Meat · 02-09-2007, 07:37 AM

Hey man i would suggest that you do only 45 min at the gym hitting the weights hard at high intensity( min rest) this will release more growth hormone. working out past an hour your body will start breaking down your already developed muscle if you feel the need to workout more just split it up into different times (45 min segments ) with plenty of rest in between and working out in the afternoon is also very good because you are able to sustain the hormone pump throughout the day because hormones are highest in the morning if you work out later in the day they stay elevated. make sure you have some protein and carbs right before work out and right after more protein and more carbs this is the only time you want to ingest high glycemic foods to restore the lost muscle gylcogen and aid in recovery. the protein should not exceed 1.7g per 1 kg of body weight. if you exceed you are pissing really expensive piss. Also stay away form sat. fats and trans fat but don't cut down on fat to much your anabolic hormones are synthesized from lipids (fats) so you should be eating plenty of nuts and fish they contain healthy fats.

hope this helps
MR.MEAT

10 · 02-09-2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocky6535

Can any of you bodybuilding gurus give me tips on building lean muscle mass without adding body fat? I currently lift for 4-5 hours per day 6 days a week. I focus on a particular muscle group each day and only double up on arms (where I feel that I need the most work). I eat a low fat diet and try to consume at least 240 grams of protein everyday (one gram for every pound of desired bodyweight). I spread it out in 40 gram increments throughout the day. I also take the supplements that JP suggested for PE as well as ginseng. I've gotten some decent results with this regimen over time, but I feel like I should be able to do better. I'd really appreciate any tips on workouts and/or nutrition.

4-5 hours a day Rocky? Shit man...........what else do you have time for?

rocky6535 · 02-09-2007, 04:39 PM

I study and hang at the same time. I stretch a little aside from hanging. I've been really inconsistent with girth though, but length is my primary PE goal. Other than studying, working and going to class I don't have much of a life. I've joined two informal sports teams, but since I broke up with my girlfriend I've found myself alone with a lot of free time and energy.

rocky6535 · 02-09-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Meat

Hey man i would suggest that you do only 45 min at the gym hitting the weights hard at high intensity( min rest) this will release more growth hormone. working out past an hour your body will start breaking down your already developed muscle if you feel the need to workout more just split it up into different times (45 min segments ) with plenty of rest in between and working out in the afternoon is also very good because you are able to sustain the hormone pump throughout the day because hormones are highest in the morning if you work out later in the day they stay elevated. make sure you have some protein and carbs right before work out and right after more protein and more carbs this is the only time you want to ingest high glycemic foods to restore the lost muscle gylcogen and aid in recovery. the protein should not exceed 1.7g per 1 kg of body weight. if you exceed you are pissing really expensive piss. Also stay away form sat. fats and trans fat but don't cut down on fat to much your anabolic hormones are synthesized from lipids (fats) so you should be eating plenty of nuts and fish they contain healthy fats.

hope this helps
MR.MEAT
NSCA CSCS
NSCA CPT
UNLV ATS

I'm 6'3 and 225 lbs right now. I think a better target weight for me would be between 235-240 assuming none of it as body fat. I eat a lot of turkey and tuna (mostly because I'm broke and can't cook worth a damn) as sources of protein, and I also use optimum nutrition protein powder. My workouts usually consists of sets of 15,12,10,8,6, and then 3-5 sets of 3-5 with increasing amounts of weight each time going up to as heavy as I can push myself. Then I generally add 2-3 work sets of 10-12 on a much lower weight to completely burn the muscle out. Then I'll move on to a different exercise that targets a different part of the muscle. It's a lot, but I give myself several days of recovery for each muscle group. I can't squeeze that amount of work into 45 minutes. I would really appreciate additional advice/criticism. Thanks for the help.

JohnnyC · 02-09-2007, 04:54 PM

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty lean/decent muscles, built more like Tom Cruise than Arnold S.(can't spell it)!, but there are so many opinions out there. But the main thing you hear is eat big and lift big. I know alot of guys that follow that and look like crap, because they just eat big, but not clean. I'm not saying it doesnt' work but once you eat big and lift big, most will have to cut. I agree on cutting it down to 45 minutes!!
But whether you want to get huge like Arnold or slim and ripped, I'd guess diet is 95% of it. You go out and run 5 miles and burn x amount of calories and then eat 1 big candy bar and you've just consumed what you had burned running. I mean, I know people that have a near perfect diet, but hardly workout and they look good and what musculature they have shows. On the other hand, I know guys that eat like crap, and work out all the time and have nothing to show.

Here is what I do in a nutshell. I'm not bulking or cutting, but stay pretty much where I want all year and I'm not a slave to my diet or workout. I eat a foods in portion sizes. I use microwaveable plates that have sections to keep me from overeating. I eat basically what I want, just not as much as I used to. On Fri. night I splurge and go out and have what I want. I drink 3 cups of coffee a day.
Cardio: I run Sat./Sun./ Tues/Wed. at least 1 run of 30 minutes, the rest avg. about 20.
Weights:
Sat. Chest/back
Monday: Shoulders/Arms
Wed. Legs

Not for everyone, but it's worked for me for slimming down/gaining musculator, and dropping my blood pressure.

SonicCelt · 02-09-2007, 07:04 PM

From what I have read the average person can only put on 5 pounds of lean muscle every year depending on your genetics, age etc. That's why the longer you been at it the better. That being said you have to eat, sure you will put on a little fat but you can cut later. You need to focus mainly on compound movements like squats. deadlifts, bench press etc. Make sure you use olympic bars as much as possible and keep the reps 6-8 and max out and keep your workouts to about an hour otherwise your insulin levels go wacky and you're not doing yourself any good.

Mr.Meat · 02-09-2007, 07:07 PM

if you strictly want muscle mass then increase time under pressure doing a tempo of 4 slow count up 2 count pause 4 count down with more rest less cardio. you want to do cardio on different days again cutting it down. this will add mass very bulky like and very slow. if you want strength you do 5 set of reps range 3 to 8 depending on exercise i.e. dead lift a 3x3 or 3x5 or 5x3 and chest more 5x5 5x8 with plenty of rest. this will make you stronger not really bigger or more cut. pro body builders are almost always using some additional help if you catch my drift. if you just want to cut fat and get ripped doing sets of 12,10,8,6,12 and the last set same body part no rest between doing a different exercise do additional 12 reps. the rest between the first five sets should be 30 secs. this the best combo i have seen to work for strength, fatloss, and a little muscle endurance since i don't know exactly what you are looking for this is the best i can tell you now. heres an example

day 1- upper body - chest shoulders back tricep bicep
day 2- cardio 20 min interval high intensity
day 3- lower body- quads hamy calves abs
day 4- cardio
day 5- upper body
day 6- cardio
day 7- rest

the second week switch upperbody and lower body
some week 2 is two lowerbody 1 upperbody workout then the following week switch back.

you should get through it in about 45 min
every six weeks change up your exercises

depending on what you want its very hard to gain mass and retain being cut without the help of hormones that is why i say to retain the pump through the day because about after 45 min intense work you body will start to release catabolic hormones that eat your muscle up because of the mircotears and trauma pro bodybuilders combat this with the injection of hormones ( which is horrible for you don't do it please) so train hard eat right and replace what you loss so after the workout you have about a 30 min window to get carbs and protein into you.

MR. MEAT

sikdogg · 02-09-2007, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocky6535

I'm 6'3 and 225 lbs right now. I think a better target weight for me would be between 235-240 assuming none of it as body fat. I eat a lot of turkey and tuna (mostly because I'm broke and can't cook worth a damn) as sources of protein, and I also use optimum nutrition protein powder. My workouts usually consists of sets of 15,12,10,8,6, and then 3-5 sets of 3-5 with increasing amounts of weight each time going up to as heavy as I can push myself. Then I generally add 2-3 work sets of 10-12 on a much lower weight to completely burn the muscle out. Then I'll move on to a different exercise that targets a different part of the muscle. It's a lot, but I give myself several days of recovery for each muscle group. I can't squeeze that amount of work into 45 minutes. I would really appreciate additional advice/criticism. Thanks for the help.

The thing is that more is not always better... sometimes it's just more. Working out each bodypart only once a week really isn't efficient as most bodyparts only need about 36-48 hours to recover. You don't have to destroy each muscle group every workout to make gains... in fact, doing that just extends your recovery period. Think of working out like this, each workout and recovery cycle constitutes one growth cycle. That said, the more growth cycles you put in a given week the better gains... You can prolly work each body part 2-3 times per week (depending on your recovery abilities) using about the same amount of volume and make better gains. I've typically switch off between DC style training and HST and have experienced better gains than i ever did from doing one-day-per-week-kill-your-muscle style of training. JMO...

sikdogg · 02-09-2007, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Meat

if you strictly want muscle mass then increase time under pressure doing a tempo of 4 slow count up 2 count pause 4 count down with more rest less cardio. you want to do cardio on different days again cutting it down. this will add mass very bulky like and very slow. if you want strength you do 5 set of reps range 3 to 8 depending on exercise i.e. dead lift a 3x3 or 3x5 or 5x3 and chest more 5x5 5x8 with plenty of rest. this will make you stronger not really bigger or more cut. pro body builders are almost always using some additional help if you catch my drift. if you just want to cut fat and get ripped doing sets of 12,10,8,6,12 and the last set same body part no rest between doing a different exercise do additional 12 reps. the rest between the first five sets should be 30 secs. this the best combo i have seen to work for strength, fatloss, and a little muscle endurance since i don't know exactly what you are looking for this is the best i can tell you now. heres an example

day 1- upper body - chest shoulders back tricep bicep
day 2- cardio 20 min interval high intensity
day 3- lower body- quads hamy calves abs
day 4- cardio
day 5- upper body
day 6- cardio
day 7- rest

the second week switch upperbody and lower body
some week 2 is two lowerbody 1 upperbody workout then the following week switch back.

you should get through it in about 45 min
every six weeks change up your exercises

depending on what you want its very hard to gain mass and retain being cut without the help of hormones that is why i say to retain the pump through the day because about after 45 min intense work you body will start to release catabolic hormones that eat your muscle up because of the mircotears and trauma pro bodybuilders combat this with the injection of hormones ( which is horrible for you don't do it please) so train hard eat right and replace what you loss so after the workout you have about a 30 min window to get carbs and protein into you.

MR. MEAT

NSCA CSCS
NSCA CPT
UNLV ATS

Good advice Mr.Meat.... but since he's looking for more size i think he can prolly go with more weight days than cardio. I was thinking of something like this:

day 1- upper body - chest shoulders back tricep bicep
day 2- lower body- quads hamy calves abs
day 3- cardio 20 min interval high intensity
day 4- upper body
day 5- lower body
day 6- cardio
day 7- rest

rocky6535 · 02-09-2007, 08:42 PM

I play basketball once a week and rugby once a week. I may not do much more cardio than that because I want to increase muscle mass, not lose weight. I'm not really trying to burn fat either because I'm already at a pretty low body fat percentage. I can't tell you exactly, but it's probably around 5 or 6%. I guess I'll try working every muscle group three times per week and try to pack each workout into 45 minutes. What if I workout in a 45 minute interval, take a food break for an hour or two and then work a different muscle group for another 45 minutes? Is that still inefficient because of drops in insulin & hormone levels? Thanks for all this advice.

Mr.Meat · 02-09-2007, 10:04 PM

if you feel the need to workout in the morning and then later in the afternoon some what we do with two a days i am just afraid that you are still doing too much too much on your body possibly overtraining and slowly down recovery and results. you say you play b ball and rugby if you just want mass you hinder you speed and power like i said if you want to get bigger you will gain weight you will add on additional fat just because of the need for additional calories need to gain muscle and once you get to desired weight then you can cut fat down. to gain mass you do not need to do individual muscle exercise compound movement are best doing that 4 2 4 tempo to concentrating on the eccentric or negative or the down movement of the exercise to increase time under tension .

MR.MEAT

rocky6535 · 02-09-2007, 10:12 PM

I will try to incorporate all of your suggestions and see how it goes. I'm playing a couple of sports, but they're informal club leagues, so it's not like I'm really training for athletic purposes. It's more for aesthetic purposes. I feel good about my current strength, speed and endurance levels as they are. I'm also pretty happy with my level of body fat, which is why I didn't want to increase it. I just wanted to add muscle mass in order to look more muscular and less lanky.

bear · 02-12-2007, 03:35 AM

Lean Muscle Mass??

Here is the best combination in the whole world:

Gym + Swimming

I would have a perfect body if had as much free time as you. For a good muscle definition, swim, swim, swim... It's not just a sport, it's an art.
How good is it?
Cardiovascular - 5 stars
Strength - 5 stars
Flexibility (and you loose a lot when you work out) - 5 stars
Balance - 5 stars
Body shape (as a result of) - 5 stars
Muscular coordination improval - 5 stars
Percent of muscles involved - 100 % (that's 5 stars)
I could spend hours talking about it and its benefits but nobody would read anyway...
Go for it!!

rocky6535 · 02-12-2007, 05:20 AM

Just for the record, I don't have tons of free time. Other things in my life have been suffering. So I really hope the 45 min. time limit philosophy works out because it'll free up a lot of time for other things I have to do.

growerfun · 02-12-2007, 05:27 AM

You'll be lucky to avoid injury if you're really lifting for 5 hours a day. Surely you won't gain anything unless you're on gear.

Lower volume, higher intensity! Go to www.wannabebig.com and they will guide you. That site helped me out a ton.

rocky6535 · 02-13-2007, 01:27 AM

I had two separate hand injuries recently, but they didn't come from lifting accidents. It made it very difficult at first though. I've never really injured myself from lifting, so maybe I am really lucky. I don't really consider myself a bodybuilder, so that site seemed a little overkill. I just want to gain about ten pounds of lean muscle without adding additional body fat. It may be wishful thinking, but I've started to incorporate everyone's suggestions so we'll see how it works out.

Bigdz2123 · 02-24-2007, 07:21 AM

i wouldnt recommedn being at the gym for over 1 1/2 hours a day. And like someone said before, its mostly about diet and diet timing. www.bodybuilding.com has tons of articles on this stuff and is very helpfull. If you have the money, take the next step and get better protein. That Optimum Nutrition stuff has all kinds of gums and fillers that arent all that good for you.
Ive done alot of research on different lifting routines and all that stuff and all of them say dont over train. The only way lifting 4-5 hours per day would be beneficial would be if you were taking steroids. But roids would probably shrink your dick and that probably wouldnt be what your looking for. Take those extra hours and slap on the PM.

rocky6535 · 02-25-2007, 12:15 AM

I won't take steroids under any circumstances. I'm more or less open to anything else as long as it's safe. I'm already taking the supplements JP suggested plus ginseng and saw palmetto. If you have any other suggestions let me know. Also, what kind of protein do you think is better than optimum and why? I've taken the suggestion of limiting myself to two intense 45 minute sessions per day, 6 days per week. In a month or so I'll post a progress update.

Bigdz2123 · 02-26-2007, 12:31 AM

The majority of the supplements i use are from BSN and Muscle Tech. BSN because they have the award winning NO-Xplode which is a nitric oxide/creatine supplement. and Muscle Tech which has Anator P-70, which is a great protein and recovery meal. I also have been getting the MaxMuscle Gourmet protein, it tastes really good, also the Optimum Nutrition used to give me gas and i dont get that from MaxMuscle.

bear · 02-26-2007, 05:55 AM

I just wanted to say that I am against diet supplements synthesized in the lab. Their molecules are not the same as those we find in nature. In a long term they can cause all sorts of stomach, liver and kidney problems. That includes cancer. Just eat your vegetables and have a nice couple of stakes instead.

lifter · 02-26-2007, 12:50 PM

hey rocky definately cut down to about 1 to 1.5 hours aday. however to help you more can you pls post up your current training program.
it all depend on where you are at currently
unless your very advanced already i suggest you train for less days per week.
i personally made best gains full body programs 3 times a
week using big lifts like squats bench and rows.
however as i said it all depends on where you are at the moment.

but IMHO for natural lifters to gain mass its best to concentrate on the compound movements. i been lifting for 2+ years and when i started out i used a split and made reasonable gains. but after i started doing fullbody 3 times a week and concentrating on the big lifts i put on much more mass.
you mite have heard of it but a really good program is bill stars, google it up.

as for not putting on bodyfat, i suggest you watch your diet and make sure you do NOT eat TOO much above your maitenance. cardio is really optional imo.

sikdogg · 02-26-2007, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigdz2123

The majority of the supplements i use are from BSN and Muscle Tech. BSN because they have the award winning NO-Xplode which is a nitric oxide/creatine supplement. and Muscle Tech which has Anator P-70, which is a great protein and recovery meal. I also have been getting the MaxMuscle Gourmet protein, it tastes really good, also the Optimum Nutrition used to give me gas and i dont get that from MaxMuscle.

BSN makes decent products but you would rather buy an overpriced product like MuscleTech over Optimum Nutrition?? I only use OptimumNutrition and take in close to 300g of protein per day and surprisingly don't suffer from excess gas like i do with other protein supplements.

sikdogg · 02-26-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bear

I just wanted to say that I am against diet supplements synthesized in the lab. Their molecules are not the same as those we find in nature. In a long term they can cause all sorts of stomach, liver and kidney problems. That includes cancer. Just eat your vegetables and have a nice couple of stakes instead.

Sounds like alot of bro-telligence to me... regardless of the source you consume for protein, your stomach breaks it down to amino acids which is what's absorbed into the body. Your body uses those amino acids to build tissues... stomach problems from high protein intake is due to incomplete digestion of the protein which is normal for most and can be easily remidied by taking a digestive enzyme like aminogen (which is contained in ON products)... the fable of protein causing liver and kidney problems has been debunked by many clinical studies...

I totally agree that one should eat their whole meals but there is nothing wrong with taking supplements.

rocky6535 · 02-26-2007, 10:37 PM

I don't get gas from ON. The only reason I'll switch is if someone can convince me that a different kind of protein will better assist me in building lean muscle mass. Also, I only want to gain around 10 lbs so it's not like I need some sort of magical solution. And I'm not going to take creatine ever again. I have not substantially changed my diet, which I described in my first post. Should I?